How to competently build communication so that HR is the first to name the salary fork?

Question

Career in IT

Many HR stubbornly refuse to be the first to name the salary fork during initial communication. As a rule, standard phrases like "we pay market salaries", "we offer good salaries to good specialists", etc. are heard.
I want to learn how to build a conversation so that they are the first to call the fork.
I work in the IT industry, a programmer if it matters.

Answer 1

It's strange to me that someone else has this problem. When they called me for interviews, I always directly asked what salary they were talking about. If you tried to dodge this question, I said something like this: “You understand that by not telling me the salary, you may be wasting both my time and the time of your company. Imagine that I came, your employees interviewed, we all spent time and strength, and as a result, they call me a salary that does not suit me. Isn't it more logical to save our common time and money and immediately exclude such a scenario?"
In my opinion, this is quite tactful and, most importantly, adequately and reasonably.

Answer 2

Piggy pigs don't last long - that's why no one will tell you a fork. Never
Phrase

we pay market wages

gives you more bargaining power than any fork
Since the market includes the whole globe, then we go to glassdoors and show $100k/year and bat our eyelashes and say that we are satisfied with such an average salary

we offer good salaries to good specialists

we ask you to indicate the criteria for a good specialist on this and also show glassdoors.
The one who rashly names the price first will be the loser.
But talking with the pig about the salary is useless - because they do not make a decision

Answer 3

Well, I ask what their budget for the position is (the budget is always determined in advance). If they can’t name it, then the proposal is empty - in this case I usually say that I don’t have empty conversations, when there is something substantive, with understandable conditions, then we will communicate, but now there is nothing to discuss.

Answer 4

You just need to come to the philosophy that you yourself say how much you need (for example, 30% more than the current one). If you are really worth it, the company will come to meet you. There was an experience, they were invited to work temporarily for 1.5 rates (8 hour working day) until the change of grade for the position was agreed.
In companies, it all depends on the position for which you are applying. If the position is new, then the company itself does not yet know how much specialists cost (and does not know how to arrange work), it itself is still studying the market and, other things being equal and sufficient knowledge, will hire a cheaper employee. If the position is replaceable or expandable, don’t jump above the grade anyway, no matter how much you ask.

Answer 5

There is no universal advice here, since in any negotiation there may be different combinations of participants and their interests. To understand what to say, you need to clearly understand who is who. There is a very entertaining article - an interview of specialists or an interview like a game , which just describes the process of negotiating a job. I advise you to read, it can push thoughts in the right direction.

Answer 6

and the difference
is still xp does not make any decision

Answer 7

He will name and deceive: he will pay the lower limit or lower (especially during the trial period, and even try to increase this period, and then dismiss him).

Answer 8

No need.
Call whatever you want.
But do not bargain - if you do not have a critical situation, there are no reasons for bargaining.
This is as much as you want.
If you feel it's your duty to swindle the firm so that you get paid more than you're worth, um... it's easy to see through as soon as you start working.
The meaning of bargaining is not clear at all - do you think that you are not worthy of this money and agree to dump it?
Well then, call 3 times more just so that there is a place to bargain.
Because your qualifications will not be evaluated by them.
They can only name a wide fork.
If you name a fork, you will draw some conclusions:
Wow, they pay well here, I will ask a lot and I will not stumble (but your qualifications are low, you are counting in vain, they will waste a lot of time on you).
Or, on the contrary, wow, it sucks, they won’t even try (they will lose you, but it happens that ... we even create new positions on purpose if a worthy specialist comes).
If HR says "market" - well, look at some website hr.ru and take the prices from there.
As a rule, the fork is not called when it comes to hiring specialists of very different levels.
The announcement is one, and according to it, both juniors and seniors are really hired.
Actually this is not a problem. Little whether that you there called. If you say - you changed your mind, I understood at the interview that your tasks are complex (during the interview, you can not be shy to ask about the company and the job - this is a mutual conversation - they ask you, you ask).
I personally came across a situation (both as an employee and as a specialist in technical interviews of those hired) when the originally called salary differed 2-3 times more from the maximum of the surebet.
But - only after a technical interview .