How easy is it to get a job as a programmer at 40+, 50+, etc.?

Question

Career in IT

Hello,
before it was forbidden to indicate the age limit in job advertisements, in more than half of the programmer vacancies there was a restriction "under 35 years old".
I wonder what it's like to work as a programmer at 40+, at 50+, etc.?
How difficult is it to find a job at that age?
A few years ago, I was deeply impressed by a man in years who came to our office to update "Consultant Plus". I myself am a 1C programmer, and it turned out that the man in the past was also a co-worker and even "worked in Rarus" (one of the coolest franchisee firms, offices implementing 1C, for those who are not in the 1C topic).
To my logical question: "why are you updating the "Consultant", and not working in some kind of rarus ??". He answered in a neutral tone: "They don't take it like that anymore - old. I'm 50 years old."
My friend, also a 1C programmer, talked about a situation in their office where he witnessed how the resumes of 2 candidates with solid development experience were rejected almost immediately, since both were 43-45 years old. And the director of the IT department then said to a friend: "Well, where are we going to take such people? We need a young, energetic one."
It turns out that with age, despite the experience gained, the value of a programmer in the labor market falls and, perhaps, many will have to change their profession to a less paid and interesting one?

Answer 1

Difficult - and every year it will be more difficult and worse. The volume of the pool of "minimum competencies necessary for a programmer" is growing every year. Every year there are some new frameworks, tools, chips - which, in theory, should facilitate and simplify development - but in reality they grow as an insurmountable wall between you and the "real world of web development". Because you're getting older and technology is getting younger.
I would draw a picture, but it turns out to be very obscene ;-)
And it’s impossible to “shove” all the new technologies into yourself - you either spray yourself and know everything from the top ... or go deep into the topic. But then you have to put new technologies aside, because there is simply not enough time and / or effort for them. In youth - time. Later - strength.
Already now, in order to be considered a layout designer / programmer / front-end / back-ender - you need to know 2 times more technologies than 2 years ago. A sort of Moore's Law in reverse. Yes, you yourself just look at these lists of "competencies"!
You read the list of requirements for "Web programmers" and you see that month after month, year after year, HRs and those who set tasks for them add more and more buzzwords to the requirements that they themselves have heard and do not understand why it is do they need it and do they need it? The situation is getting closer and closer to "If drivers were hired as programs .... In 2010 it was a" joke of humor ". Now it's almost a reality.
Do you want an example?
What can we say about commercial organizations? Especially those for whom a web programmer is both a reader, a reaper, and a player on the pipe?
But it's all lyrics and the cry of the soul. Sorry.
And yes, by the age of 35-40-45, according to "young and ambitious IT specialists", you should have a strictly defined list of competencies both in the profession and in life (for example, I was faced with a refusal to apply for a programmer position because I don't have... a car. Why does a programmer need a car? Well, there is a complex and long logical chain, which boils down to "since you don't have a car, you're a sucker, and we don't need suckers").
It seems to me that the problem, among other things, is that the vast majority of these very "young and ambitious"professionals do not think about their future at all . No, I'm not talking about the future, which is "where will I go when I finish this cool project." I'm talking about reality. In their understanding, 35 years is an unattainable distant future, and they will not live to 50 (and if they do, then in their dreams they will be team leaders in Google).
Accordingly , "young and ambitious specialists" look with disdain at people who have given 15 years to the development of a certain platform, a platform that some pool of new technologies is now trying to replace. In their opinion, everything that is older than 5 years is unnecessary outdated mammoth shit. And those who do not know the technology that appeared six months ago are lamers who are behind the times.
Also, the Dunning-Kruger effect is in full force here.
I summarize:it's hard if you don't have 1500 completed projects on your resume. And the further - the more difficult and difficult it will be. But you can get lucky - if you are a competent specialist in a narrow field (even if it is 'legacy'). Or you can find a sinecure - a state organization in which you will join the cohort of the same "young and ambitious" thrown off the steam locomotive of progress . Don't worry, after 20 years they will be thrown off. And you will stay. Now I just want to eat. Even if it's just bread.

Answer 2

something they wrote some kind of nonsense)
I went to programmers at the age of 37 (!) years. Moreover, he deliberately went to scrap his brain, because before that he worked as a humanitarian in the field of advertising and marketing for 15 years.
And when I went to get a job, everyone looked at me not as a pimply June, but with respect.
I didn’t see age restrictions at all, when I changed my second job as a programmer, it was the experience of both programming and the experience of stupid age experience that was evaluated.
I am currently in charge of the IT department. To my right is a 25 year old programmer, to my left is 27 years old.
And both are stronger than me, as specialists. And I'm the boss. And why? Because experience)
that's it, babies)

Answer 3

I'm 39, I often work with young teams. The main problem that arises is the situation "we missed all the deadlines, so we will work at night and on weekends, and although you did everything on time, you must help us." After the refusal (family, children) take offense at me and do not want to work with me for some time, like an unreliable comrade.

Answer 4

My friend, also a 1C programmer, talked about a situation in their office where he witnessed how the resumes of 2 candidates with solid development experience were discarded almost immediately, since both were 43-45 years old. And the director of the IT department then said to a friend: "Well, where are we going to take such people? We need a young, energetic one."

such fascinating stories exist in any profession.
there are also terrible stories when they don’t take too young or too women or too non-Russian or too without a residence permit, or for many other reasons.
but we understand that all this is nonsense. these are natural obstacles that the one who wants to overcome must overcome and nothing more.

Answer 5

A subordinate in front of the bosses should look dashing and silly! In order not to embarrass the authorities with their understanding.

This explains all the paradoxes of the CIS labor market, unknown in the rest of the world.
How will a 20-year-old new manager build a 50-year-old employee who is older than his father?
And how can one ensure discipline in the team and the correct way of relations with subordinates without constructions?

Answer 6

Nonsense, actually.
1) The first argument is personal. Well, we have a developer in our team who is over 40, is engaged in JavaScript. Feelings are extremely positive. The comrade has a lot of experience and knows very well what he is doing. Moreover, he is studying something new, moving somewhere in his field.
Well, it’s true, I knew one or two comrades who are also over 40 and who have experience, but at the same time they also have first-class impudence, caring more than anything about counting more hours (well paid), and not about their code worked without errors. :) It's just that a person has no conscience and no desire to do his job professionally, it happens at any age.
2) The second argument, sociological. As you know, in recent centuries, the duration of a person's life as a whole, and its component part - childhood, has become much longer. In Pushkin's times, peasant girls at the age of 13-14 were of marriageable age, the whole burden of family life fell on them. Now these are the most perfect children, they only play with dolls.
Twenty years ago, a guy of 20 years old was an adult and already often married. Now 20 is young green; to stand firmly on your feet by this age, to become a professional in an intellectually capacious branch of activity - yes, it is practically impossible; therefore, it’s too early to talk about the family, no matter what the guards yelled there. Well, naturally, as soon as childhood and youth are stretched out, then the period of active intellectual activity should also shift. Capturing 40 years, and 50, and maybe 60-70. It really depends on individual efforts.
3) Argument the third, professional. Has anyone heard of a literate, qualified professor of mathematics being kicked out at 50? Of course, he certainly can no longer generate ideas, as he did at 20; Mathematics is for the young. But his experience is enormous, he is respected, he teaches students and graduate students; his advice is valued and can seriously help young colleagues; he is far from out of the profession. Why is this happening? Because mathematics is an established field, mathematics is a profession in the fullest sense.
Programming has not yet fully matured as a profession, because it is somewhat younger than mathematics (well, by at least five thousand years, if you count from the Moscow Mathematical Papyrus with stereometry problems). For the idea that programming should become a profession, see Robert Martin's post, which I really like: blog.cleancoder.com/uncle-bob/2016/07/27/TheChurn.html
UPD. Other speakers mentioned psychological reasons: the team lead, who is 25, is afraid to show the team his ignorance in comparison with the uncle, who is 40. Well, this speaks more about the team lead, and not about the uncle. Team lead should sit quietly in the evening and think about whether he lives correctly in this world, if he is guided by the standards of the Stone Age and the rule "I'm the boss, you're a fool."

Answer 7

getting a job at this age is much easier than at twenty)

Answer 8

There was no crisis in IT even in the midst of the crisis. There was a reorientation in some directions, but as there were many unfilled vacancies, so it remained in the crisis. The demand in the IT sector is huge. Not finding your place in it at 20, 30, 40 or 50 years old is nonsense. It is possible that you simply chose the wrong profession.
A bad programmer at the age of 20 is perceived as normal. He is still learning. He still has to know nothing. He should receive a penny salary.
If by 40-50 you will not become a specialist and will continue to look for your place in life, then I have a surprise for you. Unpleasant. A 40-50 year old who can do it at the level of a 20 year old is no longer looked down upon.
PS
I am a little over 50. I have no problems with the demand for my services. On the contrary, I believe that life begins only after 45. At that moment, I left the old poor clients whom I had been afraid to leave before. As it turns out, the remaining ones that are richer are sufficient. Less work, more money. The work is harder, the work is more interesting.

Answer 9

Hello. Let me put in my word. Yeah, tin :)), I’m not the first to read such articles, since I’m 32 myself, a doctor by education, I’m not as lucky as many progers who started at 13-14 years old, I got my first computer in the 11th grade (then I became interested in computers), and then I saw him sometimes, on weekends, since I left for the city after the 10th to study at the medical school, there was computer science at school, but so for show. I bought my computer only at 23 (I remember a rover beech), and then my family, children, at 28 I tried to start programming, but met resistance from family members, parents, misunderstanding, "what can you do so much time at the computer", "you have nothing to do , you suffer from nonsense, "in their view, the computer is only for games," vk "and" ok. But I don't give up. I am 32, no specialized education, family, children, but it seems like he’s not a fool, (he also needs to graduate medical brains), little by little he tried to learn different languages, settled on Python and C #, plans for C / C ++. Overcoming the resistance and misunderstanding of others, I go to my goal, because I know, I am sure that I am doing everything right, and I had to do it my way before, listen to myself, and not others. At first it was hard, but I began to understand the principles, the essence and already become easier. Why these languages? Because there is another interest - trading, so I want to combine two pleasures into one. By the way, no one from the surrounding people approves or understands this either :). But I don't care, I know what I want, where I'm going, and I really enjoy programming. Of course, I want to find a job as a programmer, just so as not to be torn between my main job and programming and not stew in my own juice, and completely go into the IT sphere. Even if I don’t get settled, I will try to stir up my little “startup”. As one wise man said "do not correct the goal, correct the actions", "the road will be mastered by the walking one". I think the most importantbe a professional in your field , then the job will find you. I know such pros (not in the field of IT), there is a constant queue of clients for them.
So, as W. Churchill said, " never, never give up! ". And the teachers in the honey: "they don't let you in the door, climb out the window."

Answer 10

Damn, when you read such stories, and at only 27, I'm already getting scared. And I only just touched web programming, and programming in general. I won’t even count how many times I was told that at that age no one would take me as a junior.
Destroyers all around.

Answer 11

It's just that there are bad programmers and there are good ones.
I have a lot of colleagues aged 40+ who have a queue of clients.
Colleague Puma from Thailand correctly said:
because at this age, at the age of 40 -
My friend, also a 1C programmer, talked about a situation in their office where he witnessed how the resumes of 2 candidates with solid development experience were discarded almost immediately, since both were 43-45 years old. And the director of the IT department then said to a friend: "Well, where are we going to take such people? We need a young, energetic one."
Works on 1C are divided into 2 completely different types of activities:
Well, there is some activity averaged between these two points.
So in your case, they needed a person for the first activity.
PS:
And yes - there is such a thing as "too skilled worker".
such workers are immediately dismissed.
For example, I myself do this for two reasons:
1. Too qualified will be bored, not interested in what will affect the quality of his work.
2. Too qualified most likely wants to work for me temporarily, as a transshipment base, finds a job according to his qualifications - and dumps. In particular, this situation is typical for those who have recently moved to another city.

Answer 12

I think how many people so many situations.
Of course, there is a general trend (to take young people), but there are too many influencing factors to say that age will be the key problem.
I am more interested in the topic of changing the environment itself.
Needs \ demands of programmers.
It was rightly noted here that in many cases the low level of competence of the mercenary is sufficient for the employer. As such, often a programmer is not needed. Yes, the position will be called a programmer, but in practice you need a "nailer along the marked line."
And in this case, a fork is created - the programmer (experienced, experienced) is not interested in the scope of work, and the employer is not interested in paying for a microscope that needs to be hammered in nails.
The need for "intellectual laborers" is increasing, while the need for actual programmers-creators is decreasing.
Perhaps, as some futurologists predict, in the future there will be 9 programmers per European part, the rest will be "servants" of the robotic industry of everything and everything.

Answer 13

There is another important nuance. Now 40-year-old programmers are those who started working in the 90s, after the collapse of the USSR, when, in fact, IT appeared in their current understanding. I see it as something like this:
Based on this, it can be assumed that for the last 30 years we have been in a temporary abnormality, shaped by a paradigm shift in IT. If tomorrow another revolution does not happen, today's 40-year-olds, like all their lives, will be the pioneers of the new reality. In 10-15 years, we will naturally form a situation similar to the USA and the West, where there was no generational gap between programmers, and older colleagues are in the order of things.

Answer 14

It's just that there are many offices where puff-puff and in production. They don't need special qualifications, the salaries are small, the overtime is constant. Of course they need "under 35 years old ... young, energetic", but in fact just a low-skilled dude with a low salary.
Experienced programmers themselves will not go to such offices.
After 50, there are no familiar programmers, but after 40, there seem to be no problems with employment.

Answer 15

when I was 27 years old, I got another job, created a big system there that brought a lot of money to the office and the boss told me that he took me out of the basket. I asked what it means. he said the HR fool threw my resume in the trash because she thought 27 was too old. then the head of the next office told me the same thing. Now I am 42, I have already created a bunch of serious projects and I am thinking about my own business. I don't see any problems with working for my uncle. Yes, some fools can filter by age, well, that's their problem. there will always be those who with their hands will tear off a person who has experience and who does not want to sit out his pants. this is exactly what you need to show at the interview that you have knowledge, experience and pants here you are not going to sit.

Answer 16

I have 2 employees, one is 57, the other is 65.
At this age, people have problems, which are the stop factor. In order of priority:
1. Health. Sick leave is not scary, but bad hearing and memory spoil it very much. At the same time, pressure rises in critical situations.
2. Experience begins to develop into insanity. I hear the phrase "it used to be better" three times a day.
3. Leading a person who is 2 times older than you is very difficult. I'll probably always remain a "boy" for them.

Answer 17

The value of a programmer grows with age, as experience also grows.
It's just that many don't want to develop and follow technology.
Why does a company need an employee who, instead of a distributed database, offers to write all the data to a file?

Answer 18

I read an article on this topic.
https://habrahabr.ru/post/324426/ Suddenly it will be useful)

Answer 19

Trees are green. Once every couple of months, a topic appears, collects a lot of answers, hangs in the top for several days, and so on until the next time))
Well, take a look at the search ...
Briefly - yes, there is a problem. But if you are not stupid, not softened by the brain and professionally fit, you live in a city where there are more than three firms, then the shortage of personnel in the industry allows you to put a big bolt on it. Well, they won't take you to a couple of places because of this. You will have a couple of failures out of five for this reason. Well, you will come to a place where there are no such bends, and that's it.
And it’s better to be a good specialist in a sought-after field, to know English - you don’t care about these small-town complexes.
Something like this.

Answer 20

1. Yes, they take younger ones. But why?
For the most part, they have more energy and strength.
If there is a need to do something grandiose: switch to a new framework, stay late for several days just to issue a product with bug fixes, etc. Then the young have more energy
2. But they also take older ones.
But all people are different. Someone is already "tired" and does not want to do anything at all. A la "burned out". And someone will come and run WinDbg and write a script for pykd on his knee and find a bunch of vulnerabilities. Then he will describe them and say, "You guys have your hands out of your ass. You can't write like that" and show you how to do it! In such cases, the employer is scared for a different reason, "But isn't he too experienced? After all, the salary will ask for more!" ;)

Answer 21

Once here in the comments I saw this www.oreilly.com/programming/free/files/2016-europe...

We quantify how much each variable
seems to contribute to salary. For instance, the country
you are in has a major impact on your salary, and the programming
language you use has a much smaller (but often
important) impact, whereas a person's age has no impact
at all

But locally, the situation may be different
PS: so far I do not belong to the category of persons 40+

Answer 22

Such a nuance is possible.
Why does a person in 40+ look for a job at all? How and where did he work before?
If this is an organization that has been pulling legacy to the last, we have a specialist in legacy. How many people need it?
If the organization continues to work, but without him, why would it fire a decent specialist?
Well, if a person by 40+ has not worked somewhere long enough, this speaks not only of his value as a specialist, but also, perhaps, of other qualities ...

Answer 23

If all young programmers were in the army, then there would be more sense in everything, well, of course, this is only my opinion.

Answer 24

I'll write my short answer. Employment is a difficult thing. And it even depends on proper nutrition in the personnel department and the regularity of the chair of the head of that department. You can always stir up your small company and find your niche to move on. And not necessarily the IT profile of this company.

Answer 25

And who is stopping you from working full time from home?