Are good rates, full-time and long-term compatible in freelancing/remote work?

Question

Freelance

Let's take some parameters to clarify the question:
- A good (not to be confused with a high) freelance rate in my understanding is $20/hour and more. High, IMHO, is 40-50-60 and above.
- Fulltime - 40 hours per week

by the way, subquestion

реально ли вообще заниматься кодингом столько часов (8 часов в день, 5 дней в неделю) на протяжении многих месяцев, лет? Часто вижу мнение о том, что продуктивно можно работать не более 3-4 часов в день, но тогда фултайм перестаёт быть фултаймом при почасовых контрактах

- Specialization - I can't say for sure here. I do mostly front-end, but I also know back-end, I know php and symfony well, I understand how to design a database, normal forms, I did several projects, so I'm looking for work in both directions.
- Long-term - 11 months a year, lasting from a year or more
The crux of the matter.
How realistic is it at all remotely: full workload at a rate of $20 per hour and as a result:
- $4,000 (200,000 rubles) per month?
- $40,000 a year?
For frontend developer. If for the frontend it is not real, then tell me in what areas is it real?

Who cares how I came to this question

Проанализировал профили многих фрилансеров на апворке и пришёл к выводу, что крайне мало тех, кто работает фултайм на хороших ставках. Понять это легко - в профиле у многих стоит приличный рейт, заявлено много лет опыта, в профиле много часов, но часов, отработанных именно с заявленным рейтом - мизер (конечно много кто работает мимо биржи и ищет клиентов на других площадках, но это уже отдельный момент). Затем сделал тоже самое с предложениями о работе: долгосрочных фултайм контрактов с хорошей оплатой также крайне мало (заявки есть, но они убого "размазаны" по дням, чуть ли не по неделям, т.е. в день примерно более менее одна приличная заявка, на которую как вы понимаете 50+ желающих).
Возникает вопрос - а много ли вообще существует клиентов/компаний, которые могут платить удалённым разработчикам ~$4000 в месяц 11 месяцев в году, т.е. порядка $40 000 в год? Что-то мне подсказывает, что с трудом можно найти такие контракты, так как часто вижу такое мнение, что на аутсорс (на удалёнку, фриланс) отдают в основном низкооплачеваемую и неинтересную работу, такую как правка legacy кода, поиск и фиксинг багов, а если хочется хорошие и оплачиваемые проекты, и при этом полную загруженность - то быстрее, проще и разумнее поискать такую работу "в офисе". Но много ли где в российских офисах платят рядовым разработчикам порядка 200к рублей в месяц? Риторический вопрос
Возможно я ошибаюсь, ведь я просто экстраполирую свой личный опыт, возможно я банально нахожусь в стезе лузеров, кому достаётся только такая "донная" работа и есть категория других, "крутых" фрилансеров, которые работают удалённо на интересных проектах, имеют полную загруженность и как следствие - те самые 40 килобаксов в год и даже выше. Так что, если тут есть такие - можете ли поделиться своим опытом, секретом успеха?

Answer 1

Quite realistic, I do it myself - https://www.upwork.com/freelancers/~010d15364e8cf3268d
About time. If you take and roughly calculate everything, then in 2 years it will turn out to be about 5 hours a day. In fact, it turns out 28-35 hours a week, more is rare.
I have been working with one customer for a year and a half, the first contract was also quite long (6 months).
The current rate is from $22 to $30, depending on the project.
By the way, the projects are different. The last one is for ARM, for example.
Do not listen to advisers from Toster and Habr, who say that no one will succeed. Here most of the users are some kind of evil.
If suddenly someone is interested, developers are periodically needed in the team (spoken English and all that).

Answer 2

Compatible, I work full-time remotely, fixed monthly salary - $5200.
At the time of signing the contract, it was agreed that my working day would be 8 hours, but I spend 5-6 hours directly on work, the customer is more than satisfied with the amount of work that I give out during this time.
PS I'm a mobile operator, some familiar backend developers (PHP/RoR) get more.

Answer 3

40 hours of remote freelancing does not = 40 hours of the office, the second option is much simpler. Is it realistic to raise 40k a year freelancing? - yes, when you fill yourself with an audience (regular customers, a sundress) and a rating, in any case you will not sit without work.
In such a choice, you must decide for yourself what is more important for you - the freedom to be anywhere, the ability to leave at any time as "tired" or stability with less stress in work, but with much less maneuvering in terms of freedom. If you know the answer to this question, then choose the right direction.
According to the subject, in general, it is possible to combine freelance and full, many do this.

Answer 4

Lots of good answers. In my experience, sustaining 4-5 hours a day is really hard. I won't write anything new.
But. A couple of times I had a chance to work in a team with guys who track 30-40 or more hours a week. The guys have not very small rates of $35-45 and excellent reviews, Job Success 100%. But looking at their commits - anger takes. For the "difficult" 20 hours a week, I do ten times more work. The guys openly freebie, "throw" a customer who does not understand the code. So yes - you can regularly "work" 30-40 hours a week for a good rate. But this is as far as conscience / common sense will allow.

Answer 5

I read the answers and my hair stands on end.
Personally, I work all day - that is, 16 hours a day. And I can work like that 5 days a week, at least a whole year.
But this does not mean that I sit all 16 hours, buried in the monitor and typing around the clock.
The work of a programmer is not so much typing code, but you need to think.
And you can think not only in front of the monitor, but anywhere - in the shower, in bed, watching a TV series, on a walk, at breakfast, etc.
And I think not_for_monitor is the most productive and high-quality. Then you go to the computer and drive in the code, having thought everything over in your head, you write the architecture.
And so few bugs are formed, and you write high-quality code, which then almost does not need to be redone.
And you need to pay more for such code than for the one that is exhausted by sitting at the monitor for a long time.
You guys have not yet realized that your life is wasted in this coding, only you got up in the morning, and your work day has already begun, that's it. Set the tracker to start. You don’t even need to stop it when you lie down, because in a dream the programmer also solves problems.
How many times have I had dreams where I solve a problem on a project, and even in one dream I had a hint on how to solve a difficult piece of code that I was not given a couple of days of sitting, stupidly at the monitor.
And so the work of a pogromist is round-the-clock work!
And nefig count seconds and minutes, it's ridiculous. Even counting hours is ridiculous. If a person got a permanent job, he should be paid just stupidly for 160 hours a month, because he is wasting his life on a company.

Answer 6

But how many places in Russian offices pay ordinary developers about 200k rubles a month?

eco hit you. 200 to an ordinary developer.
yes, they have never paid and will not pay so much for an ordinary person
here for 100-120,000 the requirements are already off the charts, and you want to
calm down 200, web macaques are paid 50-90 at best

Answer 7

$20 per hour is a pretty average rate. you will not be able to work for 8 hours on the tracker all the time. After such a working day, I need 2-3 days off, because I burn out.

Answer 8

what is the point of earning 20k a month?
if so, then you need to hire people and work 8 hours a day managing processes,
yes, in general, I know a person who earns over 16k bucks with rates above 50 bucks sysadmin, I even know where he lives and I can even go to the malash at any time and stay with him.

Answer 9

Compatible, it’s strange that you don’t know this, you asked questions about upwork here 2.5 years ago, if you wanted, you could already find jobs for $60 with a workload of 50 hours a week.
It is not a fact that one particular client will feed you 11 months a year, so you can change projects, there is no competition.
And about this:
We have real examples in odeskconf of people tracking more than 40 hours consistently.
Well, we must not forget that tracking = not only writing code.

Answer 10

Really, it all depends on qualifications.
It is realistic to work out 4-5 hours a day, if more, then over a long distance it is a pen.

Answer 11

is it really possible to code for so many hours (8 hours a day, 5 days a week) for many months, years?

No, it's just not real.
Even with a high rate in your understanding, it’s really possible to find full-time on the same upwork, including with the possible relocation somewhere to the customer (I was offered Norway)

Answer 12

productively you can work no more than 3-4 hours a day

3 hours is not enough - during this time you just reach the "cruising speed". But it’s impossible to work 8 hours a day all the time , it’s true. In my opinion, the productive period is 4-6 hours/day. Sometimes more is possible, but only sometimes - on bursts of enthusiasm, on some very interesting tasks, etc.

Answer 13

Well, to be honest, working full-time for a long distance as much as you can really knocks you out of a collegue, you want to quit everything ... Even if you really want to continue doing what you like. https://prnt.sc/gvlhas
My comrades have worked and are working like this. A little. One flew off to work over the hill. Another works , of course, he does not take into account the hours when he worked with us for half a year or more, because. we had time trackers.

Answer 14

You can work freelance in full-time mode for a long time. Rates - 40 more if you're really good. 40+ for freelancers from Eastern Europe is already difficult . An exception, only if you somehow got a direct client from, say, the states and cooperate with him. Even for the local market (regular office work) in most Western European countries $40/hour is already a lot. Just look at the statistics of salaries by country and understand where your niche is in the market.

Answer 15

Good question and even better answers.
There is something to think about, but already the understanding that you are doing something wrong is only getting stronger.
I was always tormented by the question - do I get according to my knowledge or do I not get paid extra.
It is also interesting, if a beginner registers on the upwork, then within a month it will be possible to take at least some orders or not, or is there a place only for inveterate bearded coders?
In general, I will add two points:
1. On non-core boards - vacancies with such payment that you want to cry
2. I noticed by myself that you work productively for 3-4 hours, then productivity drops by 90%. Although, I remember it used to be 15 hours a day, but after this, as they wrote above, you need to rest for three days)))
In general, programmers are a good profession - they worked for 3 hours, received 200-400 kilo rubles, by provincial standards, and even remotely, this is just a fairy tale.