Payment for weekends and holidays in IT organizations

alexkoh2012-12-25 11:55:31

Payment systems

alexkoh, 2012-12-25 11:55:31

Good afternoon, colleagues!

In connection with the onset of the New Year holidays, a question arose in our service office on duty during the holidays.

Only me and my colleague are engaged in a certain class of network equipment. And we decided to blame all the holidays, without saying a word. As a result, we received a reproach from the manager that we don’t care about the job and that this fact will be taken into account when compiling the bonus card. Moreover, there is no order for these duties, there is only an indication of the head.

To my question, how, in fact, my working hours can influence the preparation of a premium card, I received the answer that you are administrators who must provide 24/7 service. However, in my employment contract, a 40-hour working day is prescribed. To my objection, they say, then organize a group of admins on duty, as providers do, I received an answer that we are not a provider, but a service organization.

Surely there are IT leaders in this community. Do you think this is normal practice or not?

Also, at one time they tried to introduce an order on duty on weekends. That is, on the appointed day, you must be available, sober and, if necessary, could go to the scene of the accident. Moreover, they paid only for the time that the engineer is on site (according to ACS). And the days of duty were compensated by time off, of which there are plenty.

Interested in how things are with similar shifts in other organizations? Do you get paid for extra hours?
Maybe I have too cynical ideas about personal time for which they don’t want to pay ...

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13 answer(s)

alexkoh, 2012-12-25
@alexkoh

I think that it is worth stopping the discussion and let me summarize.
So the conclusions:
1. All participants in the discussion, except for the respected habrouser JDima , believe that the duty should be agreed with the employee, be official and paid. The amount of payment depends on the conditions of duty. At the workplace - one amount, at home - another.
2. The adequacy of an engineer for emergency calls is very dependent on the attitude of management and monthly material rewards. That is, as it comes around, it will respond.
For some reason everything...

un1t, 2012-12-25
@un1t

I often see a situation in organizations where "effective managers" try to force everyone to work overtime and on weekends. My opinion is that managers do their job poorly. If the company does not have time to do all the work on time, then you need to either hire more people, or not take on so much work. When offered to work on the weekend, I usually answer with a categorical refusal.

JDima, 2012-12-25
@JDima

Do you think this is normal practice or not?

Absolutely normal. And any adequate engineer is aware of the need for this. And your leader is absolutely right. Not from a legal, but from a ... or something moral point of view.
We are paid for the actual time spent. From the first call of the duty officers to the moment the incident was resolved (or returned home). During the period of duty, you must be sober and a maximum of half an hour from a computer or any other means of remote access.
When you chose a profession, you could not help but understand that extracurricular work is part of the profession of a networker.

Wott, 2012-12-26
@Wott

Everything that is done at work must be paid one way or another - work is not charity, but the exchange of actions, time and knowledge of the employee for money. If the contract is drawn up so that there is a regular fixed time, then any work outside of working hours must be
1. on order
2. paid at a separate rate
But in the right places, contracts for responsible engineers are drawn up with irregular working hours and appropriate compensation, a duty schedule is drawn up, which people would have free time for rest and personal affairs.
If the boss does not pay in any way and does not compensate for waiting outside working hours, this is just redneck, or rather an attempt to steal time from the employee, because taking it and not paying for it is theft. An argument like “he doesn’t do anything”, then in response you just need to turn off the phone - unpaid, and therefore personal time - I spend it as I want. The guards also do nothing most of the time, as are those on duty at the Ministry of Emergencies, and so on, but if work requires duty, then all the waiting time is working time.
I constantly work in places where duty is necessary, where vacations are scheduled, long holidays such as the New Year are always accompanied by duty schedules, and sometimes there are people who simply cannot be replaced and they have a work phone that must be turned on always and everywhere - on the beach you are in Turkey or drunk in bed and not alone in Chukotka. And always such services are paid or negotiated separately, for example, a day of duty as 2 working hours or a quarterly bonus in the amount of salary. And an unanswered call is a violation of labor discipline - everything is serious and in accordance with the contract.

un1t, 2012-12-25
@un1t

There are too many comments on my previous post, so I'll answer here.
> You have never been responsible for supporting critical infrastructure, which is why there is such a misunderstanding of the issue.
I had such an experience. Managed the IT infrastructure monitoring system related to elections in 2008. In addition, I am a power engineer by education and I know how work is organized at electrical substations - these are much more important objects than the Internet or telephone.
The duties must be paid.
> Here's an accident in the area, which is accompanied by two people. Both people are on vacation, swelled up, sitting with
>discharged mobile phones, etc. The infrastructure lies. There is no one to lift it. Every minute of downtime is decent
> money. And here we can talk not about minutes, but about days, which poses a threat to the very existence of the office.
> I hope I explained clearly why "at least one person from the department should always be in touch"?
Duck, you yourself say that such a simple one costs a lot of money for the office, but for some reason you think that employees should do this work for free.
> The author of the topic, being a professionally immature person, just resents the fact that the boss does not allow them all
> Department to unscrew somewhere. But what if they really scatter on holidays, and an accident occurs?
It's not about that. Duty must be organized so that the infrastructure works stably. Everyone agrees with this. However, the author says, and I agree with him, that shifts should be paid and should be specified in the employment contract. The duty must be paid. It requires certain efforts from a person, being on vacation and being on duty is not the same thing.

Nikolai Vasilchuk, 2012-12-25
@Anonym

Read your employment contract. If it does not indicate that on Sunday you must be sober and ready for work and defense, then you can safely score.
The problem here is that you will be given a salary, but bonuses, which are usually not included in the contract, may not be given.
But this is a purely "human" problem.

Puma Thailand, 2012-12-25
@opium

Usually he paid for work on holidays at a double rate, there were always those who wanted to work.

strib, 2012-12-25
@strib

From a formal point of view - wrong. But if the work is treated formally, then what for is it needed like that? That's half of a conscious life on what you don't like.
With a human one, you need to keep the network 24/7, the work is like that, but when you supported critical services there were a lot of unofficial goodies that compensated for night, holiday and everything else. Here the question is in normal relations in the team. If such questions arise, then something is very, very wrong.

shelekhov, 2012-12-25
@shelekhov

Thanks to Habr, which helps to weed out "effective managers" and not make a mistake by getting a job with them.
Now on the topic: you are obliged to fulfill what is written in the employment contract. If it stipulates mandatory duty on certain days and the corresponding form of payment, then you must comply with this. If it is not written, you have every right not to comply.
Do not respond emotionally to the indignant exclamations of an “effective manager” that will cut your bonus, take it calmly. And it is better to look for another job with a human attitude towards employees, in which they perform work according to an employment contract.
The choice is yours - work to live or live to work.
Best wishes and Happy Holidays to you.

lubezniy, 2012-12-26
@lubezniy

If the only employee responsible for the 24/7 service should always be available, then this is a gross defect in the service. A person can get sick, so in an important service he should always have a replacement at hand, with the expectation that there will be no one to even ask a question on the phone.
The rest is solved by early scheduling of duties (at least at the computer) of the most irreplaceable employees (there should not be completely irreplaceable) and careful planning of measures for actions in cases where it is not possible to contact the responsible specialist.

atreen, 2012-12-25
@atreen

In telecom providers, every holiday day, someone is watching the attendants, maybe even sitting in the office.
In the data center, too, every day is assigned to some kind of admin, who is at least on the phone.
Generally speaking, in the event of an accident, even on a holiday, all the necessary specialists are connected (if the accident affects something, and not just the light in a deserted office was turned off).

alexkoh, 2012-12-25
@alexkoh

So maybe it's worth hiring an administrator on duty and paying him money? If everything is so critical?

hom9k, 2012-12-26
@hom9k

If you're doing network uptime exclusively during business hours, then a 40-hour work week and scheduled lunch, and everything else is paid on top, is OK.
If you are responsible for the operation of a critical service 24/7, then, in my opinion, it is obvious that you should be available at all times. And it's not about money and not about what is written in the employment contract, but about the manifestation of one's professional qualities, which will definitely be counted in the future (maybe not with this employer).