Throwing university in favor of self-education and work?

alphard2012-01-09 05:34:56

IT education

alphard, 2012-01-09 05:34:56

While studying at the university in the IT specialty (23100062 "Software Engineering"), I thought a lot about this issue, weighing all the pros and cons; Now is the time to decide once and for all.
That's what I get by leaving now: time. I am going to spend it with more benefit than the curriculum suggests. As I spent it before, I constantly taught myself and exactly those things that are dictated by the labor market and the general progress in IT.
By the way, during my studies at the university, I never learned anything new for myself within the framework of the specialty - I studied C ++, C #, SQL and .NET + ASP.NET earlier and on my own, freelancing + a couple of local offices gave me development experience who entrusted me with projects, as well as the understanding that you can earn bread (with buns and gingerbread) without a diploma.
I adequately assess my knowledge and constantly replenish it, which does not give me the right to call myself a senior developer, but the question arises - will the university make me one? Of course no. And the point here is not only in the quality of the knowledge gained (they teach us C # 2.0), but also in experience. Train a student on the syntax of the language, on the library API and let him solve a real problem - what happens?
I am not campaigning for the fact that, they say, "a programmer does not need history, physical education and philosophy." A programmer, as a professional, is not needed in the general case, but for self-development, these are fundamental things.
CS/IT is developing too quickly to use such a monstrous thing in the learning process as the classic for Russia (I have not studied in other countries, so there is nothing to compare with) model of higher education, in my opinion.
On the other side of the scale lies a diploma and the strict views of parents - if you don’t receive a diploma, you’re not a person, and you won’t get a job anywhere. Of course, you won’t be able to earn freelance all your life - this is not the highest paid job for a programmer, and you can get bored at home (:
In this connection, I ask experienced Khabrovites - is it really so categorical when applying for a job to have a diploma, or look at the real ability to solve the tasks and experience?

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30 answer(s)

Vyacheslav, 2012-01-09
@alphard

A diploma is worth it to get ... of course, he will not replace prof. skills, but without a diploma, the road to state offices and large corporations will most likely be closed to you - such a formality as a 'crust' is needed there. Well, as for the 'rocking chair' for the brain, they say correctly, the truth is you need to swing, and not idle

skvot, 2012-01-09
@skvot

My nightly advice to you. The institute is a "rocking chair" for the brain and a bunch of memories. Catch up on the rest :)

avrelian, 2012-01-09
@avrelian

Treat your studies like a project. Did you take it on? Find the strength to see it through.

MikhailEdoshin, 2012-01-09
@MikhailEdoshin

The diploma has a significant bonus - it is easier to go to work abroad.

DonecVlad, 2012-01-09
@DonecVlad

If you can, combine study and work, who knows what will happen in n years...

Dmitry Petrik, 2012-01-09
@Flexo

My advice to you is never give up. In many offices, they will first of all look at your "crusts". You can be any kind of guru in C # and foam at the mouth to prove it to the employer, other things being equal, they will take education from a person. Not so long ago, I realized this myself. I am a heat engineer by profession. But I have been working as a system administrator for 6 years already. In my free time I studied C#. I tried to get a job as a programmer - it's useless. Although I completed all the employers' test tasks without problems, they apparently were simply afraid to take me to work with them. It’s only in freelancing that I find application for my skills in C#.
And what is most interesting, even a system administrator in a more serious office without any certificates and diplomas, it is almost impossible to get a job. As a result, at the age of 27, I went to a 2-year retraining course as a systems engineer, although I have been working in this specialty for 6 years.
So learn while you can. If you are well versed in subjects, then they will not take much of your time.

sankir, 2012-01-09
@sankir

A diploma is an indicator that you can do boring, boring, not interesting garbage for a long time and successfully.
There can be many more such “tedious/boring/long” routine “projects” in your life.
A diploma shows an employer that you won't quit a job just because you're bored with it.
This is in addition to all of the above.

max_mara, 2012-01-09
@max_mara

Get a bachelor's degree and quit this stupid idea.

skvot, 2012-01-09
@skvot

In fact, your question has driven me into such a terrible nostalgia for the university that now I don’t know how to fall asleep! I want back! >_< Definitely don't quit!

Andrey K, 2012-01-09
@Coder89

I also had a similar dilemma - as a result, I didn’t “flog a fever”, but combined work with study (3-4 courses worked remotely, 4-5 already in the office). I have always had good relations with IT teachers, so I agreed on a free visit, but with math analysis, etc... :)

Puma Thailand, 2012-01-09
@opium

If you have a good job quit, if not, who the hell needs you now and study.

Vitaly Zheltyakov, 2012-01-09
@VitaZheltyakov

Watch how you learn.
If you are a mediocrity who has given up on studies, but you need a diploma, then quit.
If you want to study, then combine. For 6 years I combined study and work - it's okay, life after school is even more difficult.

VBart, 2012-01-09
@VBart

Everything here is about finishing my studies, finishing my studies ... in principle, it’s right, if it’s not very annoying, you could finish your studies.
I would like to express the opposite idea. Now many graduates of IT specialties (however, as it seems to me, and others) are complete zeros. Even those who have good diplomas from good universities. The level of a person who graduates from a university depends to a much greater extent on the person himself than on the university.
The university teaches to think - a myth. The university does not teach to think. The university teaches to memorize notes and solve typical problems, all within the framework of a known program under the guidance of a teacher or scientific hand. Many times I have come across the fact that students and graduates of leading technical universities fall into a complete stupor, as soon as you set them a task that goes beyond the limits known to them. They simply do not know how to study on their own, independently explore and find information, solve a non-standard problem. Those who still know how, most often acquired this skill not thanks to the university, but in spite of it. While still studying at the university, they were engaged in their own affairs and interests to the detriment of study time.
Here you need to answer a simple question, what do you want yourself? I wouldn't consider freelancing as serious work at all. The "С++, C#, SQL and .NET+ASP.NET" set is quite funny, you won't get far. And on the M$ only market, it seems to me, crusts and certificates are valued. I would do this: I learned the language, saved up money and went to study further abroad. Whether your current university will help you with this, I don’t know. I know people from the stream who left the third or fourth year here and enrolled them there only for the first.

script88, 2012-01-09
@script88

don't hesitate to quit. These years will never come back. It will be possible to enter again. But it won't be the same. You know how no one wants to go with the army and there is nothing to do there, but after the service they do not regret that they went

EGarbuzov, 2012-01-09
@EGarbuzov

Finish your studies.
And not only because you can’t get into large offices, as they say “without a piece of paper”, but also because you are really sure that for the rest of your life you will only be interested in writing code?
A friend of mine quit at the 2-3 course, he worked a lot in his field (though not IT). In different countries, including by invitations from abroad. And then, 10 years later, when he achieved everything he wanted, he was terribly bored. I wanted to grow, to manage the processes by which he earned his bread and butter for these years. And here the question of a diploma came to full growth. He will finish his studies now on a full-time basis (his conscience did not allow him to buy a crust in the transition) and curses how much the light that he threw then.

Morro, 2012-01-09
@Morro

I myself and many of my friends had the same problem. Somewhere in the 3rd year I realized that the university would not help much in mastering the knowledge that interested me at that moment. But already at that time I was working, like my friends. Therefore, some of us completed the 5th year as best we could, while actively working. Yes, there was a small bonus: the teachers (almost all) went to the meeting to find out that I was working in my specialty, even for the most part we showed them a lot of new and interesting things that were not included in the training program. And so the advice - try to graduate from the university - you won’t lose much, but you can still gain something besides pleasant memories and a diploma.

Piskov, 2012-01-09
@Piskov

The Institute teaches you to subconsciously solve problems in the shortest possible time at minimal cost. Learn to look for solutions. Approach the issue in a non-standard way, look for connections (among people, including).
If you couldn’t unlearn for 6 years, having passed both matan, and group theory, and philosophy, and, at the same time, having learned both .net and the canons of typography, and working in the last two courses, then nothing sensible will come of it in real life (because always time is running out and life puts in even worse conditions).
Tip: instead of turning in all the debts for the last three weeks, including the transcript, and then more exams, where the teacher will recoup you for the missed semester, make the same effort at the beginning of the semester (at the same time, you are not so tight on deadlines and can be stretched for a month and a half). In this case, you will also get machine guns, and the reputation will immediately be instead of a double-dealer and a truant - handsome and nerdy (in the eyes of teachers).

@zzeneg, 2012-01-09
_

In approximately the same situation, I chose the transition to correspondence. The diploma will be, study does not interfere with work.

tick, 2012-01-09
@tick

The diploma is a crust. And 2-3 years is not the time.
Learn without stress. By the way, doesn't the army suit you?
I quit at the 2nd year and started working as a webmaster. This was in 1996, when such specialists had not yet been trained, everything was on self-education. I made the first html page in Netscape Navigator 2nd version. Then for several months I gained experience in one web studio, and then I got a job with practical experience, then it was more important than crusts.
Since then, I have not changed jobs, so I don’t know how the absence of a diploma affects. My story is atypical, because the situation of the explosive development of the web has passed, calm times have come.
On the other hand, now there is a boom in mobile applications, this is also not taught anywhere and an experienced specialist will be in demand without any crusts. But over time, his advantage—specialization—turns into a disadvantage if he cannot keep himself at the forefront of technology. And it is very difficult to combine active curiosity and practical daily work. The customer demands to be completed on time, and not to deliver the latest version. Sooner or later, a choice arises - to earn money on an already mastered area of \u200b\u200bknowledge or continue to explore new territories.
Experience gives an advantage over crust when there are few experienced applicants. And from two experienced ones they choose with a diploma.

ixSci, 2012-01-09
@ixSci

It's up to you and only you. If you are afraid, then there is nothing to think about - finish your studies. If not, get used to thinking on your own without looking at your parents and others, they won’t understand a lot of things yet. And this is not a reason not to do it, you need to live your life.
I had a similar choice - I chose to finish my studies. But I studied like a blunder and for 2 years of the master's degree I was there very rarely, so I almost did not feel the influence of the university on my employment. Now my bachelor lies with his master in a place of honor in the closet, and I am sure that he is not destined to be taken out of there, except for nostalgic impulses.
I also had a colleague at work who finished (or even did not finish) the first course of Baumenka. This does not prevent him from working at Yandex, now.
Well

Of course, you won’t be able to earn freelance all your life - this is not the highest paid job for a programmer.

You are wrong.

Progrik, 2012-01-09
@Progrik

Don't quit!
Let them not teach you anything sensible and correct, but without a diploma, employers will almost always look at you very skeptically. When applying for a job, you will always be on the list for a vacant position after those with a diploma.
Since the end of the 2nd year, I have been combining full-time study at the university and work, and I fully understand that after the university completely “other specialists” are required ... But I also soberly assess the fact that if I have problems with my studies due to low attendance and I will have to choose study or work - I will choose study, because it will be much easier to get back to work than back to work (I am a specialist, in a year all bachelor's courses are the same as freshmen now).

Ilya Plotnikov, 2012-01-09
@ilyaplot

I dropped out in my third year. Now I'm thinking of restarting.
Yes, I have already changed several jobs, from enikey to admin. Now retrained as a programmer. Nobody looked at the diploma, because he doesn’t exist :) But at the interview you have to prove that you don’t need a diploma, to feel distrust.
I will finish my studies when I find the time, which I advise you. Don't quit. It is not for knowledge in our country.

Ivan Tikhonov, 2012-01-09
@polym0rph

Now in technical universities they teach what has long been outdated. And as long as this pace of technological development continues, it will be so. So the baggage of knowledge that the university will give will already be outdated at the time of its graduation. Another thing is that they teach systematically, if the teachers are good (unfortunately, this is increasingly not the case now), so the approach itself can come in handy.
In general, I somehow asked myself a question, if we discard all the skills that the university gave me, which my friends and I use, I interviewed enough people, the conclusion was disappointing - no one uses the knowledge gained at the university either at work or anywhere yet, because this knowledge is either outdated or not required. The wife, in general, regrets that so many years were spent in fact in vain.
The crust of the diploma itself will often pop up when applying for a job, for managerial positions, and always, as my experience shows, so it’s worth having it, unless you are organizing your own office.
Therefore, my advice is this - to dynamize the university and study and work with whom and how you want, but periodically appear there and close sessions, with money there or something else, it doesn’t matter. As a result, there will be a crust and free time.
You can also listen to Steve Jobs' speech before the graduates, there are sensible thoughts there.

dopingx3, 2012-01-09
@dopingx3

I wish you good luck, you have not made any decision.

Alexander, 2012-01-10
@kryoz

Learn and enjoy life. Student years are the best memories in life. You can still earn more.
I believe that to study at a serious university for those. the specialty is useful on average - it forms the “right brains”, more precisely, the analytical mindset. And the acquired knowledge itself ... but insignificant

Eternalko, 2012-01-10
@Eternalko

Do not drop by any means.

sainnr, 2012-01-11
@sainnr

Don't quit. Try to find in each subject something interesting and useful for yourself. Even if you don’t succeed in any, finish your studies to get a diploma. Despite such a seemingly formality, without a higher education, there are problems when applying for a job without a higher education. increase sharply.
A simple example from life in addition to the comments above - some companies will not agree to arrange you under an employment contract (providing additional chips, such as VHI or free training), only under a contract.

Alex Teterin, 2015-10-30
@errogaht

I quit - and years later I regret it very much!

gabriell, 2012-01-09
@gabriell

It’s not worth it, those people who are often brought in this situation did not ask such questions on “their hub”, they had an idea (goal, company, underline as necessary) that made it clear that they should be dealt with right now.
I, personally, received 2 education, the first is not IT, the second is IT in absentia, by the time I studied, I was already programming and the second was given "naura" and simply. The only thing I'm suffering now is whether to finish graduate school or already relax :)

Lera Kryukova, 2017-07-28
@UtyaPutya

combine one with the other, why quit what you started