Is a university really necessary?

systemiv2012-09-18 16:30:50

Programming

systemiv, 2012-09-18 16:30:50

Is higher education really necessary?
I study at a university, in the 2nd year, and over time I begin to understand that he is degrading me, or at least slowing down my development.
At the moment I am working as a programmer in one of the firms in our city, and because of the institute I cannot develop and leave to work in other cities for a more interesting job.
I study at vespers/correspondence, I need to appear 4-5 times a week after 6 and before 9 pm (2 couples), the institute is known around the city for not teaching there, but only paying money.
The question arose, is an institution really necessary? Do they require a "crust" for employment?
Please advise.
Thank you!

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22 answer(s)

cypok, 2012-09-18
@cypok

I study at vespers/correspondence, I need to appear 4-5 times a week after 6 pm and before 9 pm (2 couples), the institute is known around the city for the fact that they don’t teach there, but only pay money

Such a university is definitely not needed.

Ilya, 2012-09-18
@geeek

Try the option to go to another city and enroll / transfer to another university. When applying for a job, a university may not be needed in many places, but it will wind you up with convolutions, and it will be easier with them in the future.

ixSci, 2012-09-18
@ixSci

Do you want to know if you need a university? Or even? You do not know, in general - you need it.

klen, 2012-09-18
@klen

Not needed in Russia. For commercial companies, experience is more important than a crust; in state-owned companies, you are unlikely to want to work. But a diploma is needed for a tractor, so it will be faster and less problematic to score the indicated points or pass the selection. On the other hand, a valuable specialist will be taken away without a crust (although they will be surprised), but it will take a long time until you become one.

tambourine, 2012-09-18
@tambourine

You need to do one thing. Or work, or study, and if you study, then all day. If you have plans to be a simple performer all your life, then a crust is generally not needed, but if you have plans for career growth, then the “specialist” mark is a necessary thing.

Vasily, 2012-09-18
@VasiliyIsaichkin

A HE diploma may be required when immigrating or obtaining a work visa.

AR1ES, 2012-09-18
@AR1ES

I will not talk about different companies.
I only know for sure that if you suddenly find yourself in some state institution, then without a “crust” you may be hired, but you can immediately forget about serious promotions (not allowed).
I immediately recall the film "Larry Crown", where a person already aged was laid off, because. It turned out that he was uneducated.
IMHO a diploma is always needed. It's kind of like a safety net.

Lisa, 2012-09-18
@lisa

If a particular university is not suitable, this does not mean that another one will not be suitable.
Just like a good job is not necessarily found the first time and you never have to look for it, or with personal life, not everyone guesses it on the first try.
You can go to another city and another country, choose another specialty, but to refuse education in principle, when there is an opportunity to get it, is not very smart.

Alexander, 2012-09-18
@infeneon

I graduated from high school, not the worst / good. In the process of studying and a couple of years later, I did not understand why I was doing this. Knowledge was given either completely fundamental (such as higher mathematics, physics and inscription), or already outdated (regarding IT in particular).
But over time, I realized that the university taught me how to process knowledge correctly, and this is probably the most important thing, because we are constantly learning (we don’t take the homeless / drunk option) and here it is important to quickly, efficiently and easily delve into the topic.
The second point, I noticed with surprise that in large companies it is impossible to grow above an ordinary employee without a higher education, this can be both an unspoken rule and a strict requirement for a vacancy.
Another question is what to do if the university is really bad? I had several colleagues who came to Moscow from the provinces, worked in low positions only for food and housing in the nearest suburbs, at the same time studied at correspondence or evening classes, and only then grew further. But in my opinion this is a difficult path, although sometimes it is the only one. not every city has a good university and not everyone can study in Moscow or St. Petersburg. whatever one may say, money is needed for this, and if you go to work, it is difficult to study.
In general, in your place, if the university is not very annoying and interferes with work, do not quit it, study to the end, get a diploma and after that decide what to do next, especially since by that time you will already quite clearly understand where and who you are want to work.

barker, 2012-09-19
@barker

I study at vespers/correspondence, I need to appear 4-5 times a week after 6 and before 9 pm (2 couples), the institute is known around the city for not teaching there, but only paying money.

That is why such a person chooses to study at all. To then write all over the Internet “universities are shit and a waste of time, I just graduated and don’t know anything”?

mrstrictly, 2012-09-18
@mrstrictly

A university is not only pure knowledge (which, by the way, is also not superfluous in itself). This is also acquaintances, studying the experience of senior comrades and employees of your graduating department.
For me, a university education was certainly important, although I tried to quit my studies several times, but in the end I won more than I lost. No need to rush anywhere. Now I sometimes really regret that I didn’t get knowledge on the tower, numerical methods, mathematical modeling, signal processing because of my own gouging. I could get this knowledge first hand, but I missed it. It's always harder to catch up on your own.
I would answer your question as follows: leave to work in other cities for a more interesting job and study at a high-quality evening / correspondence course there. What is the problem? Education is your own business.
In St. Petersburg, I did not meet the requirements of the crust. But at the interview, your point of view about higher education is most likely to be listened to and taken into account.

Vsevolod, 2012-09-18
@sevka_fedoroff

For a long time I was an opponent of universities, although I studied at the time and have a diploma. Now I'm not so categorical anymore. I can say from my own experience that among colleagues, people without diplomas (or with liberal arts degrees) have achieved less success than people with technical diplomas. Although it could be a coincidence.
In essence, when applying for a job in our country (Ukraine), in my opinion, they don’t look much at a diploma. But if you suddenly want to go abroad, then it will come in handy.
My opinion is that a diploma is more likely to be needed than not needed.

Nikita, 2012-09-18
@DVORYAN

I don't regret going to college. I can’t say that he gave me a lot, but it wasn’t wasted time either.
When you get a job, over 90% are interested in experience, qualifications and skills, and the crust is a side requirement. Although, if you graduate from a good university and, in addition to the program, engage in scientific work, then believe me, the result of your studies will be much more significant and interesting. Yes, college matters.

edogs, 2012-09-18
@edogs

According to your description - you study for crusts.
In this version, it is smarter and cheaper to buy crusts.

Dmitry Isaev, 2012-09-18
@x256

When I found the job of my dreams through my acquaintances - in the state office (although small money, but other bonuses are huge) - I suited absolutely everyone ... But the position implied the formal management of someone, therefore, required the presence of a VO. I don't have it. The existing diploma of incomplete higher MSTU. Bauman - didn’t suit them ...
Don’t quit.

Die_Gelassenheit, 2012-09-19
@Die_Gelassenheit

Well, if with such a description of training, as you gave, you do not spend the remaining time on self-study, including theoretical foundations, then such education, if necessary, is only for show. You will not get any benefit from it, this is already obvious, I think.
They look at the crust at the device. They judge not only by her, but with her the employer is calmer, probably. Some companies without a crust may simply not be accepted. In my experience, these are either state offices or commercial offices, where the authorities are not sufficiently “modern” and “liberal” in their attitude to higher education. One way or another, there are such offices, and sometimes (but not always, probably) they have quite tasty salaries and pleasant training / professional growth.
Plus, as already mentioned above, if the plans include growth from a simple executor to management, then the management of the office may not appreciate the missing higher education. Either they won't raise you, or you'll have to look elsewhere.
In our country, they are still looking at papers. Whether this is good or bad is a topic for kitchen conversations about high things, but these are the realities, and it is better to reckon with them. Therefore, if you have the opportunity to finish your studies, finish your studies.

ganouver, 2012-09-19
@ganouver

I have little experience in applying for a job (I worked for the same company for 15 years), but I have some experience in conducting interviews. So, I can say that
1. The presence of a completed education in a specialized field plays a role. Small, but plays.
2. A much greater (and negative) role is played by the absence of any education. Because it is a signal to the inability to do a great job.
Ceteris paribus, I will take a person with at least some kind of diploma than without one at all.
When you get a job, the employer sees you for the first time in your life. He does not know what you are capable of, what you can do - all this is only from your words. In such a situation, a diploma is some indicator of your ability to do business and bring it to the end.
Of course, if this is a purchased diploma from a fence-building technical school, then most likely it will not play a big role.

tassadar_ha, 2012-09-19
@tassadar_ha

When hiring something is not required. But working in offshore development quickly gets boring, and there are thoughts about graduate school at a good university, or at least work in Silicon Valley. To obtain an H1-B visa, you need a diploma. And for a good graduate school, master's - too. Just for this, alas.

f0b0s, 2012-09-20
@f0b0s

To reformulate your question: I have a 50-year-old Cossack, all in duct tape and I'm not sure if I really need a car.
In short, if studying does not “deliver” to you, this university is bad. No, really, I studied with pleasure at Baumanka for red and now I really want to continue abroad. You shouldn’t think that a university is like an army - it’s stupid to wind up the term, it just depends on the institution. For example, Mekhmatov’s employees are small - in all the large companies where I have been or just know, they always occupy very good positions because the brains work oh so well. And for me, for example, communication with teachers in the Baumanka gave me extraordinary curiosity, because really, you get used to asking everything - why is that? and find an answer.
Now I work in Yandex, I look at the questionnaires of employees - almost everywhere there are physical and technical institutes, Moscow State University, Baumanka and other eminent universities. I haven't seen one without a degree. So it depends, of course, on your goals and needs, but a good university gives you a good outlook, without which serious tasks cannot be solved.

Alexander Sharihin, 2012-09-18
@Pinsky

I do not regret that I studied, I do not regret that now I work as an assistant at a university.
First of all, the university teaches a certain way of thinking. Well, for example, we had the subject of NIRS - it just gave a crazy support in various issues. Although, again, the question is in the composition of the department. If those who teach you are themselves specialists with experience and knowledge, and at the same time they are also ready to share this experience, then this is just a gift of fate. If everyone put their device on you, then learning can be of little use

Golden, 2012-09-19
@g0lden

The issue of education in Russia is very controversial, a kind of reason for holivar, it seems to me that there are three sides to this dispute: 1. without education in any way! - right 2. you can do without education - left 3. something in between, the most balanced and reasonable, which I adhere to.
The first position is often taken by HR managers based on the conclusion that "a graduate has proven that he can do the same thing for 5 years."
In my opinion, first you need to decide on the area in question, say, in medicine without education, nowhere, I would not want a self-taught surgeon to cut me, the same can be said about pharmacists.
But IT or, for example, jurisprudence is a wave of comprehensible things without a higher education, because. in the first case, in the realities of our country, many universities are very behind current technologies and are simply not able to provide up-to-date knowledge, and in the case of jurisprudence, experience and knowledge of laws greatly affects, for example, I know an excellent lawyer who has studied only 2 courses (about this " way" of obtaining knowledge will be discussed later).
It is imperative to study at a university, at least to understand what a fun student life is. The second argument comes from the fact that the first 2-3 courses are almost the same for everyone; on them you get "a general idea of life and the world around you" and "learn to learn."
And the essence of the question, as I understand it, comes down to “will they hire me without a tower?”, The answer is unequivocal - they will. Recently, there has been a noticeable tendency to conduct interviews not with HRs, but with people who are able to clearly assess your qualifications, and therefore if you are really a specialist, then they will take you with pleasure. Moreover, there are no obstacles to this in the labor legislation, when applying for a job, you can safely provide an “academic certificate of incomplete higher education”, unfortunately I don’t remember from which course it is given. Much more problems can be with the lack of a military ID, for example. But it's not about that.
And in conclusion, as far as I know, in many civilized countries, work experience in a specialty perfectly replaces the “crust”, and this trend is also coming to us.

Flammar, 2012-09-20
@Flammar

In any case, the university will come in handy, even as a "shop for the sale of diplomas for hours worked." True, in the correspondence version 10 years ago (I don’t know how it is now), it was possible to sit out the hours “virtually” (only they brought the test papers for exams), but it cost money.
Outlook - well, I graduated from the Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology, he gave it to me. I suspect that the correspondence departments of provincial universities (many of which have now merged as branches into metropolitan universities) may have a worse situation with this, so I'm off topic here.
Well, yes, and, as they wrote here, a diploma is an indicator of the ability to bring to a successful end the complex, intellectual and not particularly interesting business that has been started.
So it's better to bring the matter to a diploma.